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Greenland Forum

Carbon fiber Aleutian paddle
Mark Vincent
Looking for a two piece carbon fiber Aleutian paddle. Anyone know of where I can find one. Have looked on the internet forever.
Roy Martin
Hi Mark

There were two paddle makers that made an Aleutian Carbon Fiber version {that I am aware of}

Northern Lights and Norvorca.

Both are out of business  {and I don't think either of them made many}

So you are searching in this realm

Good Luck with the search....or you could always get set up and make them yourself.
Christopher Crowhurs
Norwegian Wood makes wooden version, they are excellent.


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Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 8:42:35 PM
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Hi Mark

 There were two paddle makers that made an Aleutian Carbon Fiber version

Northern Lights and Norvorca.

Both are out of business

So you are searching in this realm

Good Luck with the search....or you could always get set up and make them yourself.


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<Unknown>
I have been making them from cedar

Heike Robinson
Can you post pictures of your aleuten paddles?

<Unknown>
I can’t figure out how to post a picture here
Heike Robinson
Would you mind to email me pics?
Thanks
Heike

Dan Hunter
I want to make a wood Aleutian paddle, but I do not know how to make the ridge on one of the sides. Does anyone know of a router bit that will cut a nice ridge and where I could purchase it?
David Niles


Sent from my iPhone
<Unknown>

The ridge is not a constant shape, it tapers from loom to tip. I use a curved chisel. I have one in process right now.

<Unknown>
Remember, these were made with scraps of driftwood on a beach with stone and bone tools. The biggest "aha" moment was when I realized that. When it feels right, it's right. I use a string for a tape measure, a couple of planes and a chisel. This is the ultimate keep it simple project you'll find.
Heike Robinson
That is a very good statement, I never thought of that:) 

Brian Nystrom
Quoted Text
Remember, these were made with scraps of driftwood on a beach with stone and bone tools.

While the "stone and bone tools" part is correct, the Aleut people lived primarily in Alaska, where trees are abundant.

There's common misconception that Greenlanders only had small driftwood, when the truth is that they had LOGS that drifted ashore.
John Huber
Quoted Text

While the "stone and bone tools" part is correct, the Aleut people lived primarily in Alaska, where trees are abundant.



Actually that's not quite correct. Alaska is a big state. Typically, most Inuits live in Western AK where trees are very limited. The Aleuts were predominantly located in the Aleutian Chain, think Unalaska and West. There aren't many trees and what trees that are there are tiny, stunted, and twisted. The trees that they used had to come from driftwood from other parts of AK and the Siberian mainland.
Brian Nystrom
Sure, but my point was that they had access to trees, not just scraps.
Mark Loyacano
...wish some of that wonderful driftwood, logs, scraps, whole trees - anything - could find its way to my local big box hardware store (sigh). Sometimes we're starving for decent lumber. :-)
<Unknown>
Get friendly with the pro staff, let them know what your looking for, but more important, why.
I'm a carpenter so I deal with all the local yards, and when you show them a picture of a traditional paddle. they don't have an issue with letting you pick through the piles or pulling a nice piece for you when they see one.
I have found some really nice stuff at the local lowes
Rita Romeu

Excellent advice.  In my experience, here in New Jersey, there is a wood supplier that deals exclusively with outdoor structural wood, pressure treated, redwood and cedar for everything from pergolas, porches for contractors through playsets (swings, slides, etc).  I had brought them a paddle I carved which they found very entertaining (considering the projects they generally dealt with) and usually helped my find good redwood for carved (Greenland styled) storm and full length paddles.

I also coated them with  a very light fiberglass and epoxy + UV inhibiting varnish.

On 9/14/2020 4:19 PM, John Henry (John.f.henry@snet.net) wrote:
<Unknown>
I'm just using a tung oil finish, I tried poly once and hated the feel. Stripped it down and oiled it.
Just ending my first summer with a traditional wood paddle, the oil finish has held up surprisingly well, some minor scuffs on the blades here and there.
I think a traditional painted finish might add some durability, looking into that.
Over all an impressive test run. It wasn't really hard to make with basic hand tools. In use I find it incredibly natural to use, observers have noted a distinct difference in the way my paddling looks using a traditional paddle, much smoother, comfortable flow.
Heike Robinson
John, what about using (died?) epoxy for the tips only?
Heike

<Unknown>
I put on maple tips to help with wear on my new paddle. I’m a traditionalist and really just don’t want to use epoxy and fiberglass on a traditional paddle. If the Inuits didn’t need it for a few thousand years I’m pretty sure I can get away without it too.
I used my first paddle all season, didn’t do anything special to it and it held up fine.
I’m good with letting someone smarter then me lead.
Brian Nystrom
I remember seeing some of the glassed paddles that Gabriel (shown as "Rita" below) made. IIRC, he used .75 ounce glass that looked like pantyhose material and completely disappeared once the epoxy was applied. It makes the paddle both stiffer and more durable. It also wasn't slick, as you might expect. I haven't tried it, but it's an interesting approach.

I prefer to use a 50:50 blend of pure tung oil and natural resin spar varnish on my paddles. It's more durable than linseed or tung oil alone, but retains the same look and feel. Prior to applying the finish, I coat the tips with white-tinted epoxy thickened with fumed silica, as a sacrificial layer that looks somewhat like bone, as least once you sand the shine off.

John, are you using 100% tung oil or one of the "tung oil finish" products? The latter are typically wiping varnishes that actually contain little or no tung oil. They also vary from a satin finish to a high gloss.
Leslie Hewett
Quoted Text
John, what about using (died?) epoxy for the tips only?Heike


I have had good results tipping my Inuit and Aleut style paddles with epoxy. In addition, I apply several coats of good marine spar varnish (with UV protection) over the epoxied tips.
<Unknown>
I use pure oil, nothing else.

If the people that invented kayaks didn’t need epoxy and varnish, I’m sure I don’t
Brian Nystrom
The people who invented the kayak weren't dogmatic about it, they just used what they had available. When they got access to mast hoops, they adopted them for cockpit coamings. There are examples of kayaks built using all kinds of "non-traditional" materials. When dimensional lumber became available, they used that. Rifles replaced harpoons. They're pragmatic, which is pretty much a necessity in a subsistence culture.

Also, keep in mind that they probably weren't making paddles from wood as soft as western red cedar and yet they still reinforced tips and edges with bone, again, because it's what they had available. I wonder how many of them still do that today?

When you think about it, it's pretty bizarre for Americans to have a "purist" attitude toward Greenland kayaks and paddles, when Greenlanders don't. It's great that they're preserving their heritage and traditional skills, but WE have no right whatsoever to opine about what's traditional or not.
Gabriel Romeu

Well spoken Brian.   Defining 'authentic' is the has always been the purview of a power elite and has mostly served to value early and ancient artifact in their own collected coffers (museum and collections) while devaluing current production by the culture, often defined to just souvenir status maintaining economic positioning by said culture.

This is an important critique (postcolonial) that has been in discussion and debate among museums for the past thirty years, numerous books written, resulting in the deaccessing and return of many objects to the original culture of the makers.  There is also a recontextualization by historians of many of the narratives of the past.

I think it is important to realize, as we make these objects, as we have the benefit of many advantages that access provides, and our understanding of what is authentic is limited at best.

gabriel

On 9/15/2020 10:13 PM, Brian Nystrom (brian.nystrom.nh@gmail.com) wrote:
Mark Loyacano
Quoted Text


Get friendly with the pro staff, let them know what your looking for, but more important, why.
I'm a carpenter so I deal with all the local yards, and when you show them a picture of a traditional paddle. they don't have an issue with letting you pick through the piles or pulling a nice piece for you when they see one.
I have found some really nice stuff at the local lowes


Thanks so much for this excellent advice. Shopping yesterday for something to start GP#2, I showed the yard manager a photo of #1. He just smiled saying he didn't know that a 2x4 could be made into a paddle - then told me to look all I want (...just don't leave a mess).

Thanks again,
Mark L.
John Henry
Glad it worked out for you. I have made a few now.
Rita Romeu

I am always interested in seeing the results of a made paddle, knowing why you picked the particular design, and anything encountered that either helped or hindered completion.  I have made quite a few with stylistic shifts, mostly in the loom to fit my hands and shoulder width, sticking as much to tradition in the paddle area.  I found that a slight spine in the transition area between the loom and the paddle helped tremendously for indexing, as an example.

I would be interested to hear your results, or anybody else with their construction,  gabriel

On 10/13/2020 12:21 PM, Mark Loyacano (mark_loyacano@hotmail.com) wrote:
John Henry
I'm interested in paddle design and making also
John Henry
I did find it interesting that the Aleut Kayak Paddle "FNM#228 in the Finland National Museum, Helsinki", was made of western red cedar. Being rot resistant I can see it being a decent choice of wood for a paddle.
Rita Romeu

That was my wood choice for carving paddles John, though Greenland style, both for it's extreme lightness and as a relatively soft wood.  Excellent workabilty with well sharpened tools.   It was not dent resistant, not so much an issue, I imagine reasonably strong, but as I mentioned before, I had used a shear fiberglass epoxy coating.  this was for additional strength and durability rather than water resistance.

The best part of the wood was that I found it to be dead straight  and stable, from a 2x4 through all the cutting and carving reductions (unusual in kiln dried wood).  I got to pick knot free from the selection, but that seemed to be easier than what I find for typical 2 bys- knot free seems to be very resinous in that selection.

I am a bit obsessive about sharp tools (I use a Japenese whet stone trio), and it did seem to dull blades as fast as any hard wood, I imagine there is a proportional silicone content.

I wonder what sort of minerals would harbor in driftwood in times past and it's affect on cutting tools?


On 10/13/2020 11:00 PM, John Henry (John.f.henry@snet.net) wrote:
Dan Hunter
Does anyone have suggestions for hand or simple power tools to make an Aleut paddle?  Or plans?    I am stumped as to be able to make the ridge down the middle.  Dan Hunter

Sent from my iPhone

Tony Schmitz
Crooked knife.

John Henry
I’m using a curved chisel and small hand planes
Rita Romeu

Hi Dan, the simplest and most efficient hand tool to do that is a round wood rasp, like a file with pointies instead..

after, you can finish with sandpaper wrapped around a dowel.

On 10/14/2020 11:56 AM, Dan Hunter (sheryldan@me.com) wrote:
Curtis Pack
Dan,
I have had luck using a powered hand planner 3” wide. This allows forming the ridge in the center sort of a diamond shape and tapering to the flat blade. I rough cut the shape using a bandsaw, then plane to shape using an electric powered hand planner. I use a file and sandpaper to finish. Not traditional as using all hand tools but a bit quicker for time constraints. I use Tung oil as the finish. Several coats and it has a good grip but still easy to slide your hands into position and is easy to touch up.
Curtis
John Huber
I use a plane like this, it works wonders for hogging out maerial as well as carving ridges in paddles:

https://japanesetools.myshopify.com/collections/curved-sole-planes/products/copy-of-mini-ebony-plane-no8-inside-round-curved-r18
Rita Romeu

That is a beautiful tool John, seems like it would make quick work of it.  It looks difficult to sharpen, though I would imagine similar to a gouge but scaled up.  I was wondering if there were a western equivalent in a spokeshave, having an double straight/curved (for outside radius) spokeshave in my collection, I only found one picture reference.  There are quite a few draw knives for larger scaled hollowing,

I think that the result of my research into this is that the crooked knife seems to be the most direct approach with the least amount of 'tool' (efficiency?) required to accomplish the inside curve.  It requires a similar skill set than any of the other approaches suggested.  Seems to be originally formed with beaver's teeth (the first experts;) by the Cree first nation, apparently  shifted to modified European knives when they became available.  I would be interested in how they would remove the temper then reharden them after bending.

I enjoyed all the different approaches suggested, nice to see such diversity in making.

On 10/15/2020 12:49 AM, John Huber (waterman.na@gmail.com) wrote:
John Huber
Like most curved tools, it is not as easy to sharpen. The steel is laminated and is great to sharpen. That being said, Japanese plane blades are really thick so there is alot of "bevel Edge" surface to act as a guide/rest while sharpening. The curved bed (fore and aft) lets you control the depth of your cut as well as plane on non flat surfaces. When I bought this plane, many years ago, it was a whimsical "that's a wierd plane" purchase. I don't use it often, but when you need it you will use the hell out of it as it is pretty versatile.
John Powers
Lee valley has two little squirrel tail planes. I have the flat one but the curved bottom one may be worth a look. Made in Canada to.
Ben Fuller
I think Lee Valley also sells cabinet scrapers. The curved ones are pretty effective and cn be ground to match any curve you want. If sharpened on a 45 degree they remove wood fast. You do need a real hardened burnisher as well.
Gina Cicotello
I have the Lee Valley curved squirrel-tail palm plane. It was given to me as a gift, specifically for use making Aleutian paddles. Simple tool but high quality, and perfect for the job carving out the concave curves on the blade.

Highly recommend.




Heike Robinson
Trees in Greenland? Are you talking about driftwood? 
Heike

Tony Schmitz
Crooked knife if you want to go old school...
David Niles
Do not know where to get the router bit you are looking for.

I have made wood Aleutian paddles by choosing a center strip of spruce (strong and flexible) and two outer strips of lighter weight wood, glued onto each side of the center strip.to be(one on each side)

Sent from my iPhone

Sipke deBoer
It has to be done with 3 different size gouges if you want two ridges on each blade. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 13, 2020, at 1:55 PM, Dan Hunter (sheryldan@me.com) <mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com> wrote:

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